Spirits and Demons

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    Nailo41

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    Re: Spirits and Demons

    Post by Nailo41 on Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:38 pm

    I dont think coming up with the powers is the full problem. My issue was finally sticking with something. Cause now that I have an idea of what I wanna do it makes it a lot easier
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    Ippy
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    Re: Spirits and Demons

    Post by Ippy on Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:42 pm

    @Elite:
    The main purpose of the ability is not disguise, that's just a byproduct.
    --> What is the main purpose that has a B grade ability as a byproduct?

    Would it be better if I added serpent tattoos that coil from the shoulders around the arm and end in the back of the hand and are a blue and red constantly swirling color? These tattoos would be demon in origin and always present.
    --> That would be a legitimate weakness to a human disguise power.

    Tartarus['s] Scorn
    --> Seriously?  Stop trying I actually have to spend time to tell you no.
    Self quote-ish: "SP costs are pretty much never a major weakness."  They can be irrelevant.
    Major Weakness: 19 SP could be a weakness on the account of its severity, if, you know, it wasn't a part of an ability that gave you 20 SP back after a period of questionable vulnerability.  Sure, it locks you out of Calcium burst, if you don't find any SP potions lying around.  Or an ally doesn't make a SP heal ability (or you don't pick one up later).

    Hey it's a major action now!  Good job!  You have a 1 exp ability that allows you to escape any situation in which you are not half dead.  Its undetectable too, how quirky.

    Please just stop.  

    @Nailo:
    Are you gonna add an item creation guide like how much dmg an item can do or any special effects it may have.
    --> No: this isn't DnD people aren't expected to have magic items.  I can help you think of how that might work though.  Let's say you make a katana for John Masr the example character.  It adds +1 damage to his katana offensives.  You just used an utility ability with an indefinite duration that doesn't cost a action (you do it during downtime).  The power of the item creation ability goes up even more the more party members you can equip, since you're adding upfront power to each character.  If an opponent tried to destroy an equip there's no reason why a character wouldn't be able to defend against that effect.  The opponent must spend an action to possibly counteract your no action ability.  I do expect a character to be more powerful than the sum of their abilities, so maybe you just enact your power through allies?  What I'm saying is if you can create item creation abilities that alleviate my major concerns (would you character have any useful actions? even if not, you're still a body with hands), then I'll let a lot of stuff fly just so I see how it works out.

    @All:
    On a side note you have an inventory.  Its contents, like domain expertise, are a function of your character's background.  Altare is a half-trade half-currency economy.  Trade is more prevalent in the villages whereas the silver coinage is more prevalent in the city.  Banded coins or 'bands' exist that can be redeemed at a warlord for 20 silver.  A band is simply a silver coin with a heaver center and golden harness.  They aren't worth 20 silver, they're symbolic of 20 silver.  A villager probably doesn't have reason to carry any silver on them, but might have a stash of a dozen silver or so at home.  In the city its probably beneficial to carry 2-6 silver on one's person at any time.  A inn stay might cost 2-5 silver whereas the food would be 1-3 silver.
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    Ippy
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    Re: Spirits and Demons

    Post by Ippy on Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:59 pm

    Ideas for Nailo:
    You give items that grant abilities, so the equipped person must spend their action to gain a benefit.
    You use your action and physical presence to "awaken" the powers you instill in items.
    You're useless. Your power is measured through the upfront bonuses you provide (this seems the hardest to judge).


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    Elit3Fla5h

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    Re: Spirits and Demons

    Post by Elit3Fla5h on Thu Jun 12, 2014 4:20 pm

    The first one was a joke but I was serious about this one and I don't think what I have done deserves for you to be so damn snippy with me. I was going along the line of making an ability that would be almost useless but not completely useless and satisfies my background. I am posting the ability so you can look at it and maybe help, not for you to be condescending. You gave a character gen section with a list of points on it and I used it and got this. My logic is that if I have ANY intention of using this then I effectively give up a C ability that is also my only defensive ability and I have an F in both toughness and agility. The ability is no longer a reaction so if I take more than 4 damage (which I believe an F rank attack can do) I can no longer use the ability and took 4 damage that I could have  blocked. Not to mention I am out of the game for at least an entire day. Would it be better if it did 9 damage instead of 5? Maybe make the casting time a minute instead of a major action? Maybe both?
    I also apologize for making you "spend time" to tell me no.


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    Re: Spirits and Demons

    Post by Ippy on Thu Jun 12, 2014 5:36 pm

    I also apologize for making you "spend time" to tell me no.
    --> Sorry, I thought you were joking again (I guess a joke would have had something more entertaining than SP costs).

    Disregarding the interaction with a C ability, you have a 1 exp ability (strictly worse than a F ability) that can escape comfy confinement no questions asked. Even if you lopped on 4 damage and a minute casting time, this doesn't change. I don't even a basic F grade could achieve that. In order to achieve a semblance of balance the applications of a ability must be considered, not simply its workings. My point-buy try-anything subjective system easily cannot cover this, its super flawed. That's the whole point of the veto power. To teach my reasoning by repeatedly shooting down abilities.

    As a combat ability (since your C interaction is centered around physical slugouts), this also fails scrutiny. It locks out your C ability to a significant degree, but that does not make it your C ability. On that vein of logic your C defensive has a clause where if you don't use it, you can jump combat safely on your next turn (for 1 exp). This clause also has the application of escaping comfy confinement (or whatever other use, since it has the potential to be used in a broad range of scenarios).

    Having the option to either use a C defensive or a C restart button is like have two separate C abilities, not a C defensive with a 1 exp bonus. You as a character can choose to activate the more useful one regarding the current scenario. Ultimately both the abilities have the same goal in mind, so locking one another out is not a gigantic cost (don't get me wrong, it still has worth). Do you use the more sure-fire defense (restart button) at the cost of a ~day absence or do you use the risky option (Calcium burst) to try and maintain your presence? Since you have options, you should be spending option worthy exp.

    As your primary function is your B+ utility rather than your F offensive, you leaving the combat scenario after taking a hit could be considered your way of contributing in physical slugouts. If your not dealt with, you have that F offensive to gain some agro. I like the way that type of play sounds, but I can't allow it as the character stands.

    The ability is definitely limited. Most assuredly. A restart button, however, is simply not worth 1 exp. By virtue of its function it should at least conquer some challenge or situation, and that capability is above the F grade (which yours is below). The F grade guideline is "This ability is mostly a convenience, it may not even be useful when it applies." I suppose I could add "due to its lack of power" at the end of that. Life restart is just too valuable a power (which is why you correctly made it a high grade ability loaded with weaknesses). While the weakness/bonus system allows you to make negligible costing abilities at high grades (hell you could have negative costs), the overall function of an ability must be worth its cost. The system isn't hard to break. If an ability had a negative cost, it better hamstring you at all times to make up for giving you options.

    Ultimately 1 exp shouldn't be able to solve any real problems. If it does, it needs to create more problems than it solves (make it a one shot that summons 14 purespawn and kills all your loved ones / work buddies or something).
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    Nailo41

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    Re: Spirits and Demons

    Post by Nailo41 on Thu Jun 12, 2014 5:39 pm

    what kind of casting time would be considered a weakness/ major weakness? If possible could you give other examples as well cuz the only one you gave as an example is taking a full round in combat
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    Ippy
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    Re: Spirits and Demons

    Post by Ippy on Fri Jun 13, 2014 2:08 pm

    If it takes multiple turns to enact an ability that ability at a minimum could get to have the power of every turn it took (its standing in for those actions). If the ability is only worth a single ability despite its casting time, forfeiting a single turn is a major- weakness (it reduces exp to slightly less than half because your getting half the usefulness of your major actions, giving the opposition a chance to respond, and removing your ability to adapt. If it also removes your minor actions its a major weakness) if the ability is an ability that is used in situations where a single turn makes a difference. Some utilities (like rituals) could have casting times, but such would only be a minor- weakness since the chance of interruption is low (the ability user can even set up defenses prior to casting).
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    Rock'emSock'emRabbi

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    Re: Spirits and Demons

    Post by Rock'emSock'emRabbi on Sat Jun 14, 2014 8:17 pm

    "glow a bright red and emit a loud bear."

    Bear gun sword OP


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    Rock'emSock'emRabbi

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    Re: Spirits and Demons

    Post by Rock'emSock'emRabbi on Mon Jun 16, 2014 9:22 pm

    So a 1 exp ability would like keep ur toenails short at the cost of your entire body secreting pheromones that horny, male cats and bees find irresistible


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    Re: Spirits and Demons

    Post by Ippy on Wed Jun 18, 2014 3:48 am

    Not at all.  Having a constant supply of bees and horny, male cats is probably overpowered and warrants additional experience costs.  That, or its an X ability, since none of those things really matter.

    Changelog
    >I've corrected some of the lore (Hareme was listed as the Capital of the West when its in the East)
    >Half-Humans understand the demon language innately (clarified)
    >Example characters have been updated (two new).
    >I've started on example abilties (to be expanded).  Included in that file is text that may help during character conceptualization in general.
    >QA has been updated.  Included is sin-indulgence V. sin-spreading as a half-human, a question Elite asked me in person.  I recommend you read it (bottom-most entry) Elite, since my answer in text is more complete.
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    Elit3Fla5h

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    Re: Spirits and Demons

    Post by Elit3Fla5h on Wed Jun 18, 2014 7:55 pm

    Well I just checked out the new character grade point cost thing.
    Huh...
    Welp, that changes things up a bit.
     Do we still have the softcap for the number of abilities we can have? And when do we acquire new abilities? We get XP as we go along but I assume we cannot spend it when ever we want. Is there always a limit?


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    Re: Spirits and Demons

    Post by Ippy on Thu Jun 19, 2014 12:17 pm

    Do we still have the softcap for the number of abilities we can have?
    --> Yep.

    Is there always a limit?
    --> Assuming you're referring to a soft cap, yes. Later on I probably won't say what it is, but when F grades are free loading up on X's and F's will just hurt the brain...

    And when do we acquire new abilities? We get XP as we go along but I assume we cannot spend it when ever we want.
    --> I'll be dropping exp throughout play for whatever bizarre reasons I please. You can spend it during periods of downtime, such as the weeks in between major events.
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    Elit3Fla5h

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    Re: Spirits and Demons

    Post by Elit3Fla5h on Thu Jun 19, 2014 12:37 pm

    So when is the soft cap raised? If I max out on the number of abilities I have now when will I be able to get another one?

    Oh, and what kind of grade would a passive ability be that raises expertise by a rank?


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    Nailo41

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    Re: Spirits and Demons

    Post by Nailo41 on Thu Jun 19, 2014 1:49 pm

    How long is a round?
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    Ippy
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    Re: Spirits and Demons

    Post by Ippy on Thu Jun 19, 2014 5:17 pm

    @Elite
    So when is the soft cap raised? If I max out on the number of abilities I have now when will I be able to get another one?
    --> After every mission/quest/arc. I may not even mention numbers, hence soft cap. Plethoras of abilities are frowned upon because it becomes difficult to comprehend such a character beyond 'the character does lots of stuff.' That being said, everyone's going to have lots of abilities eventually anyway, but at the start everyone should be able to memorize (more or less) everyone else's characters, and then keep track of ability gains from there.

    Oh, and what kind of grade would a passive ability be that raises expertise by a rank?
    --> It largely depends on the size and usage of your domain. Assuming you mean a C to B expertise, the standard or unenhanced domain can be increased by a C grade passive. However, if using expertise is your shtick (because your an expertise F-arsenal utility character), the B parameter becomes much more potent than for the standard domain. If expertise is a part of your major plan you should have abilities expressing that (see 'Medic' ability of Cecil, second example char). If a character had developed a particularly oppressive use for their domain, the passive might warrant B grade. If the domain is strong because of other F-C abilities (like Medic), then the passive can be C grade since its the combination of the expertise increase and other F-C specialized abilities that becomes oppressive (the total cost is still roughly B-grade). If the character has to be specifically opposed to be challenged, you should probably be spending B-worthy exp for that.

    @Nailo:
    How long is a round?
    --> Until the start of your next turn (a turn is one person's actions, a round is everyone's actions). ~3 seconds is what I'm shooting for now.
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    Re: Spirits and Demons

    Post by Ippy on Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:34 pm

    @Elite:
    I'm not saying this has to be your ability. I'm just throwing a spin on it.

    Biological manipulation
    Utility (Transformation, Spiritual) B+, Creation and Action
    This ability allows Chance to control all aspects his biological make-up. Chance can control life on a cellular level, including but not limited to, genetic alterations and physical distortion and/or augmentations of biological functions. He can cause cells to augment to induce advanced or declined biological healing, induce diseases like cancer, induce appearance alteration, manipulate pheromones, and even increase physiological maturity. It takes only a few moments for simple changes. Rewriting genetics rather than just cosmetic changes will take a few minutes.
    Note: Basic changes are a major action.
    Property: This ability is limited to human genetics and forms, although small deviations are possible.
    Basic- Weakness: "Larger" applications of this ability require the expenditure of 1 Action SP.
    Minor Weakness: This ability relies not only on spirit magic but the strength of Chance's body. As he becomes hungrier he becomes more unable to use this ability. Not eating for two days locks him from using biological manipulation. Large applications of this ability, such as full phenotype shifts, require him to overeat.
    Minor- Weakness: This ability requires Chance have the raw material (or lack thereof) to enact changes. If he has too much or too little mass/bone material/hair material, he may not be able to effect a change without compensating.
    Weakness: Attempting to copy an appearance from sight alone is beyond Chance's reach. If Chance has access to the target's DNA (such as some hair or a severed finger), he can remake an appearance. This application is more art than magic, since the disguise is a genetic projection rather than a replica. Chance has to manually account for the effects of history and life on an appearance (muscle mass, scar tissue, missing eyeballs, quantity of fat, etc). The reproduction is never perfect, and is liable to be noticed by those familiar with the appearance.

    Cost: 50 = (B+) + Major Bonus - (Basic- Weakness) - Minor Weakness - (Minor- Weakness)

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    Elit3Fla5h

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    Re: Spirits and Demons

    Post by Elit3Fla5h on Mon Jun 23, 2014 9:48 pm

    OR

    Name: James
    Subrace: Mortal
    Theme Music
    Spoiler:
    (it's cool music, play it while you read.)

    Appearance: He is an average built man of average height. Plain face and appearance wise there is nothing that sticks out about this man. He wears dark britches and shoes that can be found in almost any town with a white lace up shirt underneath a long non-descript black coat.

    Personality: Cold, short, and no nonsense. James is a more a man of action than anything else, this does not mean he is rash however.
    He far from cocky and his ego is almost never seen, vanity and pride are a waste of time and can prove fatal in missions.
    Carful and meticulous; James makes back up plans for the back up plans of his back up plans. There are many things far stronger than he and the only way to make up the gap is with strategy.
    He cares little for social stereotypes and standing.
    A bullet sounds the same in every language and caste.

    Backstory: James was born in a land on the other side of the ocean. That land was in constant war and was one of many kids orphaned from all the fighting. With no one to care what happened to him he was taken by strange officials, given a uniform, and sent away to a special barracks so that he may “better serve” his countrymen. There he was taught, subterfuge, assassination, survival, and many other skills required to “better serve”. He eventually graduated from his training and received his Tools of the trade to begin his work. For 10 years James served, killing high profile targets, poising water supplies, framing political figures. Whatever task they set out for him was accomplished with brutal efficiency until his last mission where he simply vanished. Two years later he can be found living in a small village in Altare with most of the items in his Tott being farm equipment. If asked, his neighbors would say James is a cheery and a friendly if reserved person. The James that the villagers see is just an act… at least it was. The other day he realized he could slip into his friendly guise with no effort, and sometimes without realizing it when he was alone. Strange…

    10 Health. SP: 5 Dominion, 4 Ruin, 3 Action, 3 Consumption, 2 illusion, 3 Pacifism  0/89 exp

    Expertise Domain: Assassian/spy/ saboteur/ terrorist
    Inventory: Thompson Contender (8), Calico sub machinegun (6), First aid spray (2), Burst canisters (2), 10 Contender bullets (2), 90 Calico bullets (2).
    Future Items/ size examples. A large coil of rope and a grappling hook (9), Extra set of clothing (9), chicken egg (1), Herb (2), shotgun (12), sniper (14), flash bangs (2), Grenades (2), Crossbow (15), bolts (4), rations (3), Tent (48), RPG (16), assault rifle (16), combat knife (3).

    All his weapons are mechanical and magical in nature. Throughout the weapons one can see dim blue pulsating veins that glow a little brighter when the weapon is shot.

    8
    Agility rank D

    15
    Expertise C
    Parameters: Str: F, Agi D, Tgh F, Res F, Ext C

    Abilities

    3  
    Tools of the trade
    Utility (Creation) F, Creation
    It is a finite cache of weaponry and tools that resets its contents, both weapons and ammunition, every midnight. Its strength lies not in its power, but in its versatility as the contents of said stock varies depending on James needs and desires for the day. Any and all untriggered traps set up are still considered part of the stock. While they may still remain during a reset, the total amount of tools in existence will not change. As such James must be careful not to focus too much on traps least he leave himself without weapons to defend himself with until the following midnight.
    Note: Tools of the trade is an immaterial name for his ability to spawn items at midnight. Everything is measured in unites that will be next to the ability or item and appears under his coat on his body.
    Current size: ??? units.
    Note 3: The numbers next to the items that tell the unit cost of said item are that value because I took them from resident evil 4 and how much space they take in the attache case. Two units should be worth about 10 attacks from weapons, a block, a heal, and a grenade (when I get one). If I want to be able to use both my attacks then 14 units of space are already used up to hold the weapons. Pretty much all my future abilities will be from this and traps will come later when I have more XP.

    26
    Burst Canisters
    Defensive (Physics/Spirit) D, Ruin
    Major Bonus: May be used twice a round
    Weakness: Burst Canister is used up in process.
    James hides these canisters all over his person. When attack he pulls the pin and tosses it between him and his attacker. The Canister then lets out a forceful burst that knocks away physical attack and then implodes to absorb energy attacks. These canisters look like small round black balls.




    13
    First aid Spray
    Utility (Heal, Alchemic) D, Creation
    Minor weakness-: There is a 4 turn delay when healing Internal injuries
    Weakness: First aid spray is used up in the process
    Weakness: Melee
    Major Bonus-: Heals an additional 1 HP over 3 rounds.
    This spray comes in small green one shot cans. When the wounded area is sprayed the target heals 2 HP. If there is no external damage the contents of the can may be consumed to heal internal injuries.



    20
    Contender Shot
    Offensive (Direct, Physical, Spirit Magic) C+, Ruin
    Minor Weakness: Requires Ammo
    Minor Weakness: Requires Contender
    Major Weakness-: One bullet clip size. Minor to reload.
    James fires a loud and powerful shot from his .308 Contender. This shot is itself physical but also infused with red spirit energy.


    4
    Calico Fire
    Offensive (Area, Physcial) F+, Ruin
    Applies suppression (physical debuff) for 1 round. If an entity moves while suppressed they take 2 damage. Offensives made by suppressed entities are dodged as if they were one grade lower.
    Minor Weakness: Requires Calico
    Weakness: 30 clip sized used in 10 bullet spray.
    Bonus: AOE (melee from target)
    Basic- Bonus: If Calico fire hits an entity out of cover, it deals 1 damage.

    James Fires a third of his clip from his Calico sub-machinegun at an area.


    Last edited by Elit3Fla5h on Wed Jun 25, 2014 12:32 am; edited 1 time in total


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    FrenchPopo

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    Re: Spirits and Demons

    Post by FrenchPopo on Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:01 pm

    Oh yeah... This thread. I still have to go over the changes and stuff... ;_;

    WHY CAN I NO INVEST ENOUGH THOUGHT INTO THIS KINDA STUFF.


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    Ippy
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    Re: Spirits and Demons

    Post by Ippy on Tue Jun 24, 2014 8:11 pm

    @French:
    It's cool.  I mean you have been preparing your own dnd campaign. I completely understand how you might be swamped with excess doses of d20.

    @Elite:
    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/16549035/Spirits%20and%20Demons/CharReview/Elite%202.docx
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    FrenchPopo

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    Re: Spirits and Demons

    Post by FrenchPopo on Tue Jun 24, 2014 9:22 pm

    Ippy wrote:@French:
    It's cool.  I mean you have been preparing your own dnd campaign. I completely understand how you might be swamped with excess doses of d20.

    Yeah... That's... That's definitely my excuse for it. >.>     <.<      ;>.>

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    Elit3Fla5h

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    Re: Spirits and Demons

    Post by Elit3Fla5h on Wed Jun 25, 2014 12:35 am

    Updated.


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    Nailo41

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    Re: Spirits and Demons

    Post by Nailo41 on Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:14 am

    Would taking a full round to use an ability be considered a standard weakness?
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    Ippy
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    Re: Spirits and Demons

    Post by Ippy on Wed Jun 25, 2014 4:37 pm

    Depends on the ability, but likely Major- (John Masr Absolute Shield)
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    Elit3Fla5h

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    Re: Spirits and Demons

    Post by Elit3Fla5h on Sun Jun 29, 2014 9:41 pm

    How would converting tools of the trade work when turning it into a parameter?

    And what would the point cost be to raise the rank of STR as a passive?


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    Re: Spirits and Demons

    Post by Ippy on Fri Jul 11, 2014 12:13 am

    @Elite:
    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/16549035/Spirits%20and%20Demons/CharReview/Elite%203.docx
    --> James 4th edition?

    Elite wrote:And what would the point cost be to raise the rank of STR as a passive?
    As a reminder, we discussed what you had in mind was a C, if I recall correctly.

    @Rockem:
    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/16549035/Spirits%20and%20Demons/CharReview/Rockem1.docx

    Now that the OOC/PnP has been created, all your character-related inquiries should go there. Any post in this development thread should address the base system or proposals to change such (I will answer rules questions in the OOC either thread).


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